9 comments

• Yes it really is GOOD news, isn’t it? God obviously used a seemingly “dry” period to show you that and the result is, as you say, you can no longer be silent. Well done! BTW, gave you a modest shout-out in my most recent blog post.

• Steve, thank you for your story. Might I ask, what is the bad news? Or, is there any bad news? In fact, what do you do with the fact that Jesus spoke more of hell than he did heaven? I’m not championing the ole fundie, pulpit-pounding nonsense; I’m just asking for an honest appraisal of the truth.

  Thanks,
  Kevin

  • Hi Kevin, thanks for the comment. To answer you question, I don’t think Jesus talked about heaven or hell much at all at least in the traditional evangelical afterlife sense. He talked A LOT about what the Kingdom of Heaven was LIKE and how that style of living needed to be brought to Earth by his followers. So I think the bad news is already that things are not what they are supposed to be. We have children who are being emotionally and sexually abused, women who are forced into prostitution, and men who are sold into slave like conditions. There is a lot of bad news (war, murder, greed, hate, betrayal etc) but the God we serve has empowered us to work against these ways by providing a Way which leads to life.

    Now I believe Jesus also talks about a day when he says “Enough!” (1 Cor 3) And makes everything new. There will be “loss” as everything in us that does not conform to a new “heaven & Earth) is stripped away and thrown into the proverbial fire. As the scripture indicates in 1 Cor that will be different degrees for different people based on “how they built” in this life. For some that chose not to conform to “good news” there will be some loss “bad news”

    • Thanks, Steve.

      Do you believe that in 1 Cor. 3 St. Paul is speaking of universal judgment or only that within the church? Also, what do you think God will do on that “Enough!” day with man-stealers, those who use small children to gratify their sexual perversions; what will God do with Hitlers, liars and thieves, who refuse to obey or “conform” to the good news?

      Cheers.
      Kevin

      • Hi Kevin, I think 1 Cor speaks to all creation (in my opinion). In regards to those classes you mentioned, there will be a great loss on that day. I do know that there will be people still receiving healing in the new creation (Rev 22:2). To what degree, and what is left when what is able to move on to the “age to come” only God truly knows.

        • Hey, again, Steve.

          Have you found any reputable scholar that shares your opinion that 1 Cor. 3 is referring to all of creation rather than the church? If we simply take St. Paul at his word, It seems the only builders mentioned in the context are immediately apostles, who are building the church, and by extension others in ecclesial authority. That this passage is speaking to the universal judgment of all humanity is well beyond the pale of the text’s plain meaning.

          Regarding Revelation’s reference, I find it odd that you want to take the second death as “proverbial,” by which I assume you mean figuratively, whilst you seem to take a rather literal understanding of the healing leaves of Rev. 22:3. This is ironically similar to a dispensationalist fundamentalist approach to the Apocalypse.

          Granting that, “there shall be no more curse,” I would question that the healing of the nations is referring to a yet future and much more progressing sense (22:3). After all, there won’t be any more suffering, pain, or death (21:4).

          There are several others that won’t simply suffer loss in the new creation, but will just not be there. They are “the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars”; “And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie” (21:8, 27a). In sum, all the “former things are passed away” (21:4). These are contrasted with those that overcome, enjoying sonship, and are written in the Lamb’s book of life (21:7, 27b).

          Despite how many young hipster preachers, wearing thin square fashion glasses and skinny jeans, may be promoting this refried theological liberalism, I just can bring myself to throw out half of scripture, the correct reading of the other half, and all of our 2000 years of historical heritage.

          Thanks for the conversation.

          Kevin

        • Kevin,

          You’ll have to forgive me. I’m afraid I can’t speak to the theological liberalism of “many young hipster preachers, wearing thin square fashion glasses and skinny jeans”. I’m afraid I’m just a middle aged, somewhat overweight guy who lives in Hong Kong and unfortunately haven’t had the privilege of moving in those cool circles.

          Best…Steve

• Oh, Steve, from Boyd’s anti-trinitarianism to Bell’s universalism to Rollins’ “Atheism for Lent” (!!) to Nadia’s ink and potty mouth, I think you’re moving in the cool circles, despite being in Hong Kong. Heavier guys were skinny jeans, too.

  • Kevin, I’m afraid to say you think to highly of me. Sadly, none of those esteemed figures you mention would even know my name. But you forgot to note N.T. Wright, unless by omission you mean to suggest he wouldn’t look cool in skinny jeans?? 😉

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